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Palan
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« on: May 02, 2006, 03:38:20 PM »

good news for resto druids it seems

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When patch 1.11 releases, Innervate will become a base ability for all Druids, trainable at level 40. Once the patch is live, any Druid who formerly had the Innervate talent will instead have the "Swiftmend" talent, which has been added to the Druid Restoration tree, replacing Innervate as the 31 point talent. This new ability will consume a Rejuvenation or Regrowth effect to produce an instant heal.

source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=863036&p=1&tmp=1#post863036
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 04:00:50 PM »

Well should help druids to get more diffrent spec for pve instead of just innervate.
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 04:19:46 PM »

OH MY GOD!  Grin Shocked

That is one fricking excellent boost to druids, I can't express how much I've wanted them to do something like that, its something that most if not all druids thought that Blizz would never do.

Will lead to alot more varied specs which can be called "PvE friendly", altho I would still recommend at least 21 Resto as we require some basic bonuses to keep our healing up to standard.

No excuse for us not to have it now. Tongue

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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 05:17:47 PM »

Now give mana tide to all shamans? Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 05:21:13 PM »

they get it at lvl 51 Tongue
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2006, 06:09:21 AM »

You'll notice he's been vague about what the actual changes will be.  I'm not expecting the 'new' innervate to be anywhere near as effective as the existing one is, because that would simply overpower the other 2 trees.  37 pages of feral druids cheering about the buff, not realising that in actual fact its more likely to be implemented as a nerf Tongue I'll be pretty surprised if the new innervate is even 50% the strength of the current one.
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2006, 07:06:33 AM »

It might end up being as shitty as mana tide then! Tongue
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2006, 08:12:39 AM »

Quote
You'll notice he's been vague about what the actual changes will be.  I'm not expecting the 'new' innervate to be anywhere near as effective as the existing one is, because that would simply overpower the other 2 trees.  37 pages of feral druids cheering about the buff, not realising that in actual fact its more likely to be implemented as a nerf  I'll be pretty surprised if the new innervate is even 50% the strength of the current one.
Oh you never know! When priests got top tree holy AND disc talents easier available both the spells were buffed Smiley (spir going from 30 to 40 with a group version, holy nova going from 1m cd to none - EDIT: Holy fire was also improved while being given to everyone, doing holy dmg instead of fire and i think receiving improved manaefficiency or something). Of course they might very well screw us over, but theres still hope Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2006, 10:40:03 AM »

Donīt think majority of druids would care if it gets a little nerf, specialy since it was forcing em to spec a certain way to help out others healing capacity in raid, instead of boosting their own with the mana efficency in balance.
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2006, 06:47:15 PM »

Donīt think majority of druids would care if it gets a little nerf, specialy since it was forcing em to spec a certain way to help out others healing capacity in raid, instead of boosting their own with the mana efficency in balance.

Theres more healing efficiency in resto than in balance, and no ofc the 'forum majority' won't care cos the druids you most often find on the forums are the rogues that wanted to play a cow. If they nerf innervate too much then there simply won't be many reasons why you'd even want druids on a raid. If feral druids think that because they get a free innervate they are suddenly handed a raid viable spec then I think they'll be mistaken Tongue HotW may give you more mana, but it won't do you anywhere near as good as the increased efficiency of the heals in resto.

We'll see though, still no guarantee it will get nerfed, but looks to me like they gave out just enough info to get a 'good' reaction.  Now just gotta sit back and wait for the omfg innervate doesn't warrant a space on my hotbar it got nerfed so hard posts Tongue
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2006, 07:18:31 PM »

If feral druids think that because they get a free innervate they are suddenly handed a raid viable spec then I think they'll be mistaken Tongue HotW may give you more mana, but it won't do you anywhere near as good as the increased efficiency of the heals in resto.
So your saying I don't heal well on raids I've attended? Argue.

Since I'm 0/30/21 and yet I still perform welll... strange.  Huh?
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2006, 07:27:54 PM »

nerfing innervate?

why would they nerf a drood even more? were allready at the bottom of the foodchain
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2006, 07:33:00 PM »

Even if they nerfed it to just 100% it would still be very usefull, thereīs a good reason why blue dragon trinket is one of the best priest trinkets out there.
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2006, 04:35:10 AM »

oh i think it is clear that [wowitem]Aegis of Preservation[/wowitem] > Darkmoon azurat!  Tongue Tongue

on a serious note:
[wowitem]Rejuvenating Gem[/wowitem] and [wowitem]Scarab Brooch[/wowitem] is teh way to go for priests (and any healer class) imo!
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2006, 12:58:01 PM »

Well we had like 2 rejuvinating gems since start of bwl and no broch yet, so need some luck with drop rate also. The darkmoon one is easy to obtain though and is almost compareable with the gem though if you have somewhat decent spirit regen.
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2006, 01:12:27 PM »

Brooch is from aq40 tho
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2006, 01:23:44 PM »

*******the druids you most often find on the forums are the rogues that wanted to play a cow

To bad they suck at dps the wanabee rogues.

Anyway wanna earn some respect with the feal/resto (cuz you wont get it in PvE raids)? come wsg/ab runs!!! there i lack them mostly while got the innervates druids (full resto) there alot  Cry, which is as worse as a prot specced warrior at wsg instead of a MS warrior with piercing howl.

Cami loves this post i bet Tongue
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2006, 02:03:53 PM »

To bad they suck at dps the wanabee rogues.
True, but people mostly compare epic wearing rogues to green/blue wearing druids... but I've matched rogue dmg the 1 time on Vael, I know its a unique boss since the unlimited energy even if they hold back, the point is capable of being equal for the dmg which was required.

I won't say a druids DPS is awsome and the best in the game as it isn't...

I see it as a fair trade off since you can't benchmark druid vs rogue at healing, ranged dmg and tanking, as a rogue CAN NOT heal, CAN NOT tank and CAN NOT deal ranged dmg like a druid can.

We have more utility, average at the stuff we roleplay in, instead of only doing 1 thing such as most other classes, for example Rogues which only DPS.

And after what I have said above, I very much doubt anyone here has seen a full epic wearing feral druid combined with an excellent player behind it, so you can't say a thing until that happens!  Argue
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2006, 02:11:20 PM »

*******And after what I have said above, I very much doubt anyone here has seen a full epic wearing feral druid combined with an excellent player behind it, so you can't say a thing until that happens! 

Yeah tbh i did Tori from LR and he is/was were he supposed to be with that build in wsg Tongue
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2006, 03:26:54 PM »

*******And after what I have said above, I very much doubt anyone here has seen a full epic wearing feral druid combined with an excellent player behind it, so you can't say a thing until that happens! 

Yeah tbh i did Tori from LR and he is/was were he supposed to be with that build in wsg Tongue
AQ gear?
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2006, 03:45:05 PM »

Vael is a unique fight, because a cat got an inherently faster attack speed it means they can fire off and make better use of the free energy they get, which is the only reason they come close to rogue damage on that one encounter.
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2006, 04:26:15 PM »

*******And after what I have said above, I very much doubt anyone here has seen a full epic wearing feral druid combined with an excellent player behind it, so you can't say a thing until that happens! 

Yeah tbh i did Tori from LR and he is/was were he supposed to be with that build in wsg Tongue
AQ gear?
50% of his armor yes
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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2006, 04:44:22 PM »

Vael is a unique fight, because a cat got an inherently faster attack speed it means they can fire off and make better use of the free energy they get, which is the only reason they come close to rogue damage on that one encounter.
Quote
I know its a unique boss since the unlimited energy
Whip Tongue
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2006, 05:07:06 PM »

well if innervate will be achieved from lvl 40 u will see allot more feral (mainly) resto (side) talented droods for ure pvp ocram for im sure of that
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2006, 07:00:09 AM »

> True, but people mostly compare epic wearing rogues to green/blue wearing druids...

Nope. I can compare druids I see in battlegrounds I can basically rate them according how much trouble they are causing me. No clue what gear they use - Id be surprised if more regular ones were not in epix. Doesnt matter.

What matters is - there is a very clear pattern. The "difficult" druids use cat form only and ONLY for stealth. Rest of the time they switch between caster/bear/travel forms. No cat form in combat at all. Such druids are very painful to fight against.

On the other end of spectrum there are perma-cats. There is nothing, -nothing- quite as easy to kill as those.

Its been long time since I last was much interested in druid talent trees. I cant honestly say that feral tree as such is gimped. Bear form in pvp can be used as very powerful tool against melee. Cat form from what I see looks weak.
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2006, 07:17:47 AM »

Think that pretty much depends on what you are fighting, cause when i play my mage i find the cat form a lot more annoying with itīs extra speed. Where as vs a rogue you will die pretty fast no matter what class you are if you donīt have much af and hp as catform normaly has, due to you canīt do anything. This is ofc if you donīt have a way to break stunns or simply live through em.

Where as in bear form you can just simply live through the stunns. Think druids main concern is more that they lack stunns and interupts in cat form. Where you have a little more in bearform with feral charge and the stunn. If you look at a fight vs a rogue with any class, itīs hardly the damage a rogue does that you fear, itīs more that you wonīt be able to do much the first 5-10 secs of the fight. Well ofc unless youīre a mage then itīs the damage, cause you can break most of the other.

But well a combination of using diffrent shapes as druid in pvp seems to be the best, and it should also be cause itīs about using the right shape for the right point.

So for pvp sure a rogue would beat a cat druid, and it would prolly do just in a fight were you would just use full damage. Unless ofc the druid shapes out. Think zeni meant though that you donīt see much comparisions in druid vs rogue in pure damage, were they have equal gear.
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »

> Think druids main concern is more that they lack stunns and interupts in cat form

Not only that. They also have no defense. Rogues are relatively easy to kill, right? That with high evade rate plus evasion plus at least 1 vanish. Even if a cat did same dps as rogue, the number of "s" in that dps would be so small the total damage in any given fight is nothing. At the same time druids are second best healing class in game, right after paladins.

Anyhow, this is only in context of pvp. In raids, low defence while scratching some boss doesnt matter all that much. So maybe druid dps indeed is uber?

> you donīt see much comparisions in druid vs rogue in pure damage, were they
> have equal gear.

Have you looked?

http://www.rez-guild.com/index.php?showtopic=1084

So, yes! If both subjects of such comparison got gear of Gods, a feral druid can come close to rogue dps.

However, a druid will need pretty much 3 different equipment sets to function in different forms. So in theory a druid will need to raid 3 times as much as a rogue or 3 times as long to get to equal gear in dps department. Unless your druid heavily prioritizes obtaining dps gear over healing one, which would be playing to the weakest aspect of your class.

Bottom line I think is this:
1. cat druid doesnt make much sense in pvp
2. cat druid doesnt make much sense in pve raids
3. cat druid is pretty much only half-decent way a druid can do solo farming of non-elite mobs.

If I was a druid, I would want to go feral as well. It wouldnt make sense in pvp or raids, but purely because of the pain of farming necessary stuff, I would want to.
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2006, 03:41:11 PM »

Hm they donīt really have to raid 3x as much to obtain all since somet stuff they donīt really have any competitors for like decent heal leather. Also druids gain a lot ap from str, and i see most str leather basicly going for min anyway to druid. So well they need more time to achieve stuff but less competition for the leather. Rings and jewels though a diffrent matter.

But well from my point of wiev itīs relativly few encounters we need 16 healers in. Like most of bwl is doable with 12-14 depending on encounter. How ever an manadraining encounter like chromagus gets a lot easier.

I have no clue about AQ40 though but i guess it will depend a lot on the encounter whatīs needed. I donīt really believe in altering the raid setup that much between instances cause i feel it would be better both from loot point of wiev and guild stability to keep some sort of balance between classes. Itīs not really that good though to do full 5 of each class as alliance can do, since our only dispel class is priest.

So i kind of like the idea of having at least half the druids as some sort of utility class to adapt after encounter, since after all itīs what they are meant to be. Supposed to be able to do everything but not be the best on anything, eventhough they are quite good healers.

Sure the loose a little healing efficency, but i see a little more flexibility gained instead, so with innervate going to all druids i donīt really see any point to force all druids speccing full resto.

Just to make sure, i donīt claim druids to do the best dps, or tank best, but they do better the any other healing class.... well execpt maybe shadow priests Tongue
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